Hola, me gustaria tener los orbat de estan unidades alemanas, 2 panzerdivision, 7 panzerdivision y 20 panzerdivision. Concretamente estas tres mas la panzer lehr fueron las que dispusieron de Pumas. Me interesa sobre todo que vehiculos tenian, de la panzer lehr lo tengo ya que sale en el Villers-Bocage pero del resto no tengo nada.
Cuando me monto una lista me gusta hacermela un poco historica y si por ejemplo me hago la panzer lehr pues no meto hornisse ya que no los tuvieron.
Gracias por adelantado.
Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
«Tanques enemigos han hecho irrupción al sur de la Ariete, la Ariete ha quedado rodeada. Se encuentra a unos cinco kilómetros al nordeste de Bir el Abd. Los tanques de la Ariete combaten.»- ultima tramisión realizada por la Div Ariete, El Alamein, 1942.
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Fenris
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Re: Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
Para ver estas cosas yo uso mucho esta pagina, espero que te sirva.
http://www.feldgrau.com/PzDiv1b.php
http://www.feldgrau.com/PzDiv1b.php
Re: Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
Muchas gracias pero no salen todos los vehiculos de los que disponian.
«Tanques enemigos han hecho irrupción al sur de la Ariete, la Ariete ha quedado rodeada. Se encuentra a unos cinco kilómetros al nordeste de Bir el Abd. Los tanques de la Ariete combaten.»- ultima tramisión realizada por la Div Ariete, El Alamein, 1942.
Re: Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
Hay un libro "División Alemana Panzer 1939-1945" de Jorge Rosado (Editorial Libsa) que describe cada división Pánzer y el número de carros de cada tipo al inicio de cada campaña importante en la que estuvo cada División. No tiene una relación exhaustiva (no puedes saber todos los carros que tenían para una batalla en concreto porque creo que ni los alemanes lo sabían con exactitud) pero sí da una idea muy aproximada. Por ejemplo al inicio de cada campaña (Rusia, KursK, Normandía, Bulge, etc) contiene un recuadro con el número de Pz III, Pz IV, PzBfWg, Pz VI, etc de la división. Además contiene muchas láminas de muchos modelos y sus características principales. Personalmente creo que es de los mejores libros que tengo y sólo me costo alrededor de 15 euros el año pasado en unos grandes almacenes que están por todas partes(acaban en "inglés").
Un saludo.
Un saludo.
"Estos son mis principios. Si no le gustan, tengo otros" Groucho Marx
Re: Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
Espero que te sirva. Está en inglés, Si encuentro algo más completo lo ponga acá. Faltan dos tablas que no se como poner. Te las envio en un privado. Es el OOB con un TOE aproximado y la otra los efectivos reales de carros de combate. Debería tener el de la Lehr. Te lo envío todo.
Un saludo.
2. Panzer Division
The division was depleted after prolonged fighting on the eastern front and during the winter 1944 it was transferred to France for refitting. Since it had arrived in France early in 1944, the division was at full strength in most respects. It had also had time to train its replacements. Already on 1 April, the division was 573 men above authorized strength1. The organization of the division when it arrived in Normandy was2:
TABLA
The panzer regiment was strong. It had 94 operational Panzer IV in the II. Abteilung, plus 2 in workshops on 31 May3. The I. Abteilung reported 73 Panthers operational and 6 in workshops on 5 June4. Most likely the division recieved no tank replacements during the fighting in Normandy5.
The Artillery regiment had its full complement of SP-Artillery, 12 Wespe (10,5 cm howitzer on Pz II chassis) and 6 Hummel (15 cm Howitzer on Pz III/IV chassis)6. Additionally there were 26 towed artillery pieces in the regiment7.
Usually a Panzer Division only had one of its four infantry battalions mounted on half-tracks, but the 2nd was an exception, having the I. battalion in both 2nd and 304th Panzer Grenadier Regiments equipped with armoured half-tracks. Consequently the division had a great number of SPW:s. On 31 May 468 were operational and 8 were in workshops8.
The division had 25 PAK 40 7,5 cm towed AT-guns and 16 (plus 5 in workshops) JagdPz IV, also it had 8 8,8 cm Flak guns, that could augment the AT capabilities.9 The Panzerjägerabteilung had an unusual organization. The 1. Company had 7 JagdPz IV, while 2. and 3. companies had 4 and 8 respectively10.
In terms of manpower the division was actually over strength by 296 men and had a strength (Iststärke) of 16 762 on 31 May11, but this probably inlcludes the 301. Fkl.Abt. with its 1 085 men12. This unit was subordinated to the 2. Pz.Div. at the beginning of June, but before D-Day it departed from 2. Pz.Div., except the 4. Kompanie.13 Thus the strength of the division was probably about 15 900 when it began to move to Normandy. The division was fully motorized.14
In some publications, it has been stated that a Funklenk-Abteilung accompanied the division to Normandy. Both 301. and 302. Fkl.Abt. have been said to be the unit that fought with the division in Normandy. However, neither of these took part in the campaign. The 301. Fkl.Abt. was sent to the East Front, but one company (the 4.) remained in the west. It followed 2. Pz.Div. to Normandy. For more information on these units, see the narratives for 301. Fkl.Abt. and 302. Fkl. Abt.
When the allies landed the division was deployed in the area around Amiens. Two days after the invasion von Rundstedt decieded to send the division to Normandy15. At 03.00 on 9 June the division received its orders to move.16 It was decided to begin the movement at dusk.17 However, since it was raining, it was begun at 14.0018, and during the evening the majority of the divisions wheeled elements passed through Paris19. The tracked units were loaded on train, causing them to arrive later. On the morning of 11 July the wheeled elements of the division had reached Sées-Alençon, while only 6 trains with the tracked units had departed20. The first elements of the division entered combat on 12 June21, but it was not until 20 June that all units of the division had arrived22. Among the late arrivals was the Panther battalion, which had arrived on the 19th with 52 operational vehicles and a further 20 that required minor repairs due to damage during the march23. Simultaneously the Panzer IV battalion arrived with about 75 % of its tanks operational24. Also the I./74 Artillery battalion arrived with 2/3 of its Wespe and Hummel SP Howitzers combat ready on the 19th25.
For most of June the division was mainly operating in the Caumont area. On 26 June the British operation Epsom was launched. 2nd Panzer Division's Panther battalion was lent to support the forces resisting the British offensive. On the 28th alone, the battalion was credited with the destruction of 53 enemy tanks and 15 AT-Guns26.
Casualties during June amounted to 275 killed in action, 1 021 wounded and 95 missing.27 On 1 July the division had 85 Panzer IV operational and 11 in workshops requiring short term repairs, while the number of operational Panthers was 2128. Another 29 Panthers were in short term repair29, while 9 were in long term repair. Twenty had been lost during June30. During June, the Panther battalion was credited with the destruction of 89 enemy tanks and 19 AT guns31.
Since 1 June the organization of the Pz.Jäg.Abt had been changed, since on 1 July it had 10 JagdPz IV each in 1. and 2. Companies, while 3. Company had 9 towed AT guns32.
On 21 July the 326. Inf.Div. began to relieve the 2. Pz.Div.33 Four days later the division reported that it had 13 Panthers operational and 26 in short term repair.34 This did probably not include 2./Pz.Rgt. 3 which remained with the 326. Inf.Div. until 27 July.35
The division seems not to have been involved in costly fighting during July, since it was rated to have "Kampfwert I" (means that the unit was considered fit for any mission, offensive or defensive) on 30 July36. Its infantry battalions were still considered strong37.
The division took part in the ill-fated Mortain attack. According to the divisional history, written by Franz-Joseph Strauss38, the division had about 60 tanks and 15 Jagdpanzers operational when the attack was launched. The strength of its main combat units on 11 August was: 820 men in 2nd Panzergrenadier Regiment, 760 men in 304th Panzergrenadier Regiment, 360 men in the Reckon battalion and 280 in the engineer battalion39. Even after the Mortain battle the main combat units were still at close to half strength.
The exact losses the division suffered during the Normandy campaign are not possible to establish. It is known that losses during June were 275 killed in action, 1 021 wounded and 95 missing40. Casualties during July are not known, but in the period 1 August - 30 September losses amounted to 315 killed in action, 370 wounded and 3 874 missing41.
Given the status of the division on 30 July indicated above, it seem reasonable to assume that casualties during July were not greater than those suffered in June. If that assumption is valid, the division must have suffered casualties of about 7 000 men during the campaign. Also this assumes that the losses during September were small compared to August.
This contradicts many statements that the division was destroyed in Normandy. That the division was far from destroyed is also evident from the fact that parts of it were still in action on 4 September42. Evidently it had suffered severe losses, but many divisions suffered even worse losses during the campaign, both on the German and Allied side.
TABLA
Un saludo.
2. Panzer Division
The division was depleted after prolonged fighting on the eastern front and during the winter 1944 it was transferred to France for refitting. Since it had arrived in France early in 1944, the division was at full strength in most respects. It had also had time to train its replacements. Already on 1 April, the division was 573 men above authorized strength1. The organization of the division when it arrived in Normandy was2:
TABLA
The panzer regiment was strong. It had 94 operational Panzer IV in the II. Abteilung, plus 2 in workshops on 31 May3. The I. Abteilung reported 73 Panthers operational and 6 in workshops on 5 June4. Most likely the division recieved no tank replacements during the fighting in Normandy5.
The Artillery regiment had its full complement of SP-Artillery, 12 Wespe (10,5 cm howitzer on Pz II chassis) and 6 Hummel (15 cm Howitzer on Pz III/IV chassis)6. Additionally there were 26 towed artillery pieces in the regiment7.
Usually a Panzer Division only had one of its four infantry battalions mounted on half-tracks, but the 2nd was an exception, having the I. battalion in both 2nd and 304th Panzer Grenadier Regiments equipped with armoured half-tracks. Consequently the division had a great number of SPW:s. On 31 May 468 were operational and 8 were in workshops8.
The division had 25 PAK 40 7,5 cm towed AT-guns and 16 (plus 5 in workshops) JagdPz IV, also it had 8 8,8 cm Flak guns, that could augment the AT capabilities.9 The Panzerjägerabteilung had an unusual organization. The 1. Company had 7 JagdPz IV, while 2. and 3. companies had 4 and 8 respectively10.
In terms of manpower the division was actually over strength by 296 men and had a strength (Iststärke) of 16 762 on 31 May11, but this probably inlcludes the 301. Fkl.Abt. with its 1 085 men12. This unit was subordinated to the 2. Pz.Div. at the beginning of June, but before D-Day it departed from 2. Pz.Div., except the 4. Kompanie.13 Thus the strength of the division was probably about 15 900 when it began to move to Normandy. The division was fully motorized.14
In some publications, it has been stated that a Funklenk-Abteilung accompanied the division to Normandy. Both 301. and 302. Fkl.Abt. have been said to be the unit that fought with the division in Normandy. However, neither of these took part in the campaign. The 301. Fkl.Abt. was sent to the East Front, but one company (the 4.) remained in the west. It followed 2. Pz.Div. to Normandy. For more information on these units, see the narratives for 301. Fkl.Abt. and 302. Fkl. Abt.
When the allies landed the division was deployed in the area around Amiens. Two days after the invasion von Rundstedt decieded to send the division to Normandy15. At 03.00 on 9 June the division received its orders to move.16 It was decided to begin the movement at dusk.17 However, since it was raining, it was begun at 14.0018, and during the evening the majority of the divisions wheeled elements passed through Paris19. The tracked units were loaded on train, causing them to arrive later. On the morning of 11 July the wheeled elements of the division had reached Sées-Alençon, while only 6 trains with the tracked units had departed20. The first elements of the division entered combat on 12 June21, but it was not until 20 June that all units of the division had arrived22. Among the late arrivals was the Panther battalion, which had arrived on the 19th with 52 operational vehicles and a further 20 that required minor repairs due to damage during the march23. Simultaneously the Panzer IV battalion arrived with about 75 % of its tanks operational24. Also the I./74 Artillery battalion arrived with 2/3 of its Wespe and Hummel SP Howitzers combat ready on the 19th25.
For most of June the division was mainly operating in the Caumont area. On 26 June the British operation Epsom was launched. 2nd Panzer Division's Panther battalion was lent to support the forces resisting the British offensive. On the 28th alone, the battalion was credited with the destruction of 53 enemy tanks and 15 AT-Guns26.
Casualties during June amounted to 275 killed in action, 1 021 wounded and 95 missing.27 On 1 July the division had 85 Panzer IV operational and 11 in workshops requiring short term repairs, while the number of operational Panthers was 2128. Another 29 Panthers were in short term repair29, while 9 were in long term repair. Twenty had been lost during June30. During June, the Panther battalion was credited with the destruction of 89 enemy tanks and 19 AT guns31.
Since 1 June the organization of the Pz.Jäg.Abt had been changed, since on 1 July it had 10 JagdPz IV each in 1. and 2. Companies, while 3. Company had 9 towed AT guns32.
On 21 July the 326. Inf.Div. began to relieve the 2. Pz.Div.33 Four days later the division reported that it had 13 Panthers operational and 26 in short term repair.34 This did probably not include 2./Pz.Rgt. 3 which remained with the 326. Inf.Div. until 27 July.35
The division seems not to have been involved in costly fighting during July, since it was rated to have "Kampfwert I" (means that the unit was considered fit for any mission, offensive or defensive) on 30 July36. Its infantry battalions were still considered strong37.
The division took part in the ill-fated Mortain attack. According to the divisional history, written by Franz-Joseph Strauss38, the division had about 60 tanks and 15 Jagdpanzers operational when the attack was launched. The strength of its main combat units on 11 August was: 820 men in 2nd Panzergrenadier Regiment, 760 men in 304th Panzergrenadier Regiment, 360 men in the Reckon battalion and 280 in the engineer battalion39. Even after the Mortain battle the main combat units were still at close to half strength.
The exact losses the division suffered during the Normandy campaign are not possible to establish. It is known that losses during June were 275 killed in action, 1 021 wounded and 95 missing40. Casualties during July are not known, but in the period 1 August - 30 September losses amounted to 315 killed in action, 370 wounded and 3 874 missing41.
Given the status of the division on 30 July indicated above, it seem reasonable to assume that casualties during July were not greater than those suffered in June. If that assumption is valid, the division must have suffered casualties of about 7 000 men during the campaign. Also this assumes that the losses during September were small compared to August.
This contradicts many statements that the division was destroyed in Normandy. That the division was far from destroyed is also evident from the fact that parts of it were still in action on 4 September42. Evidently it had suffered severe losses, but many divisions suffered even worse losses during the campaign, both on the German and Allied side.
TABLA
Re: Orbats de varias divisiones alemanas??
Estos son los efectivos de las unidades de reconocimiento de la 2ª Panzer para Normandía.
1.(Pz.Späh)/AA 2
Stab 1 x 234/2 nicht bekannt
I. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 111,112, 121,122, 131,132
II. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 141,142,151,152,161,162
III. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 171,172,181,182,191,192,
IV. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 1101,1012, 1111,1112,1121,1122
V. Zug 6 x 233 151-156
VI. Zug 3 x 232, 2 x 231, 1 x 222 Nicht bekannt
2.(Pz.Späh)/AA 2
Stab 1 x 250/3 unbekannt
I. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 211, 212, 213, 221, 222, 223
II. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 221, 222, 223, 231, 232, 233
III. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 241, 242, 243, 251, 252, 253
IV. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 251, 252, 253, 261, 262, 263
3.(Aufkl.)/AA 2
Stab 2 x 250/3 unbekannt
I. Zug 8 x 250/1 311-318
II. Zug 8 x 250/1 321-328
III. Zug 8 x 250/1 331-338
IV. Zug 1 x 250/1, 4 x 250/7 341-345
4.(Aufkl)./AA 2
Stab 2 x 250/3 unbekannt
I. Zug 8 x 250/1 411-418
II. Zug 8 x 250/1 421-428
III. Zug 8 x 250/1 431-438
IV. Zug 4 x 250/7 441-344
5.(schw.)/AA 2
Gruppe Führer 1 x 251/3 1 x 251/11 unbekannt
Pionier Zug 7 x 251/7 unbekannt
schw. Pz. Jg. Zug 5 x 251/1 3 s. Pak unbekannt
IIII. schw. Kan Zug 1 x 251/ 3 6 x 251/9 1 x 251/1 531-538
le IG Zug 4 x 251/1 2 le IG unbekannt
Los números despué del vehículo son los marcadores tácticos del mismo. ¡¡¡Puedes personalizar las unidades al máximo!!!
De todas formas , sigue el consejo anterior, date una vuelta por los foros de Feldgrau.com y lo encontrarás absolutamente todo. Yo estos datos creo recordar que los saqué de ahí precisamente.
Un saludo
1.(Pz.Späh)/AA 2
Stab 1 x 234/2 nicht bekannt
I. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 111,112, 121,122, 131,132
II. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 141,142,151,152,161,162
III. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 171,172,181,182,191,192,
IV. Zug 6 x 234/2 in 3 Trupps zu 2 1101,1012, 1111,1112,1121,1122
V. Zug 6 x 233 151-156
VI. Zug 3 x 232, 2 x 231, 1 x 222 Nicht bekannt
2.(Pz.Späh)/AA 2
Stab 1 x 250/3 unbekannt
I. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 211, 212, 213, 221, 222, 223
II. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 221, 222, 223, 231, 232, 233
III. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 241, 242, 243, 251, 252, 253
IV. Zug 2 Tupps zu je 1 x 250/3, 2 x 250/9 251, 252, 253, 261, 262, 263
3.(Aufkl.)/AA 2
Stab 2 x 250/3 unbekannt
I. Zug 8 x 250/1 311-318
II. Zug 8 x 250/1 321-328
III. Zug 8 x 250/1 331-338
IV. Zug 1 x 250/1, 4 x 250/7 341-345
4.(Aufkl)./AA 2
Stab 2 x 250/3 unbekannt
I. Zug 8 x 250/1 411-418
II. Zug 8 x 250/1 421-428
III. Zug 8 x 250/1 431-438
IV. Zug 4 x 250/7 441-344
5.(schw.)/AA 2
Gruppe Führer 1 x 251/3 1 x 251/11 unbekannt
Pionier Zug 7 x 251/7 unbekannt
schw. Pz. Jg. Zug 5 x 251/1 3 s. Pak unbekannt
IIII. schw. Kan Zug 1 x 251/ 3 6 x 251/9 1 x 251/1 531-538
le IG Zug 4 x 251/1 2 le IG unbekannt
Los números despué del vehículo son los marcadores tácticos del mismo. ¡¡¡Puedes personalizar las unidades al máximo!!!
De todas formas , sigue el consejo anterior, date una vuelta por los foros de Feldgrau.com y lo encontrarás absolutamente todo. Yo estos datos creo recordar que los saqué de ahí precisamente.
Un saludo
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